By Nathan Busenitz @ http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/01/12/a-friday-filler/#more-406
Cessationism’s Noble Lineage: tracing cessationism throughout much of church history.
The article itself is a survey of Christian leaders throughout church history who have held to a cessationist view. As men who eagerly desired to understand the Word of God correctly, I believe their insights are valuable though, of course, not authoritative.
Here then are some thoughts on cessationism from some of church history’s leading theologians:
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John Chrysostom (c. 344–407):
This whole place [speaking about 1 Corinthians 12] is very obscure: but the obscurity is produced by our ignorance of the facts referred to and by their cessation, being such as then used to occur but now no longer take place. [1] *****
Augustine (354–430):
In the earliest times, “the Holy Ghost fell upon them that believed: and they spake with tongues,” which they had not learned, “as the Spirit gave them utterance.” These were signs adapted to the time. For there behooved to be that betokening of the Holy Spirit in all tongues, to shew that the Gospel of God was to run through all tongues over the whole earth. That thing was done for a betokening, and it passed away. [2]
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Theodoret of Cyrus (c. 393–c. 466):
In former times those who accepted the divine preaching and who were baptized for their salvation were given visible signs of the grace of the Holy Spirit at work in them. Some spoke in tongues which they did not know and which nobody had taught them, while others performed miracles or prophesied. The Corinthians also did these things, but they did not use the gifts as they should have done. They were more interested in showing off than in using them for the edification of the church. . . . Even in our time grace is given to those who are deemed worthy of holy baptism, but it may not take the same form as it did in those days. [3]
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Martin Luther (1483–1546):
[Rather than acknowledging the availability of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit, as the spiritual enthusiasts of his time did, Luther (in his Large Catechism) defined the Holy Spirit’s gifts as:]
· the holy Christian Church,
· the communion of saints,
· the forgiveness of sins,
· the resurrection of the body, and
· the life everlasting
[Thus in the Large Catechism, he writes:]
Learn this article, then, as clearly as possible. If you are asked, What do you mean by the words, “I believe in the Holy Spirit”? you can answer, “I believe that the Holy Spirit makes me holy, as his name implies.” How does he do this? By what means? Answer: “Through the Christian church, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting.” In the first place, he has a unique community in the world. It is the mother that begets and bears every Christian through the Word of God. The Holy Spirit reveals and preaches that Word, and by it he illumines and kindles hearts so that they grasp and accept it, cling to it, and persevere in it” [4]
[As The Encyclopedia of Religion concludes: “Both Luther and Calvin wrote that the age of miracles was over and that their occurrence should not be expected.”]
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John Calvin (1509–1564):
Though Christ does not expressly state whether he intends this gift [of miracles] to be temporary, or to remain perpetually in the Church, yet it is more probable that miracles were promised only for a time, in order to give lustre to the gospel while it was new or in a state of obscurity. [5]
“…the gift of healing, like the rest of the miracles, which the Lord willed to be brought forth for a time, has vanished away in order to make the preaching of the Gospel marvellous for ever.” [6]
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John Owen (1616–1683):
“Gifts which in their own nature exceed the whole power of all our faculties, that dispensation of the Spirit is long since ceased and where it is now pretended unto by any, it may justly be suspected as an enthusiastic delusion.” [7]
*****
Thomas Watson (c 1620–1686):
“Sure, there is as much need of ordination now as in Christ’s time and in the time of the apostles, there being then extraordinary gifts in the church which are now ceased.” [8]
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Matthew Henry (1662–1714):
What these gifts were is at large told us in the body of the chapter [1 Corinthians 12]; namely, extraordinary offices and powers, bestowed on ministers and Christians in the first ages, for conviction of unbelievers, and propagation of the gospel. [9]
The gift of tongues was one new product of the spirit of prophecy and given for a particular reason, that, the Jewish pale being taken down, all nations might be brought into the church. These and other gifts of prophecy, being a sign, have long since ceased and been laid aside, and we have no encouragement to expect the revival of them; but, on the contrary, are directed to call the scriptures the more sure word of prophecy, more sure than voices from heaven; and to them we are directed to take heed, to search them, and to hold them fast, 2 Peter 1:29. [10]
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Conyers Middleton (1683–1750):
We have no sufficient reason to believe, upon the authority of the primitive fathers, that any such powers were continued to the church, after the days of the Apostles. [11]
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John Gill (1697–1771):
[Commenting on 1 Corinthians 12:9 and 30,]
Now these gifts were bestowed in common, by the Spirit, on apostles, prophets, and pastors, or elders of the church, in those early times: the Alexandrian copy, and the Vulgate Latin version, read, “by one Spirit”. [12]
No; when these gifts were in being, all had them not. When anointing with oil, in order to heal the sick, was in use, it was only performed by the elders of the church, not by the common members of it, who were to be sent for by the sick on this occasion. [13]
*****
Jonathan Edwards (1703–1758):
In the days of his [Jesus’] flesh, his disciples had a measure of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit, being enabled thus to teach and to work miracles. But after the resurrection and ascension, was the most full and remarkable effusion of the Spirit in his miraculous gifts that ever took place, beginning with the day of Pentecost, after Christ had risen and ascended to heaven. And in consequence of this, not only here and there an extraordinary person was endowed with these extraordinary gifts, but they were common in the church, and so continued during the lifetime of the apostles, or till the death of the last of them, even the apostle John, which took place about a hundred years from the birth of Christ; so that the first hundred years of the Christian era, or the first century, was the era of miracles. But soon after that, the canon of Scripture being completed when the apostle John had written the book of Revelation, which he wrote not long before his death, these miraculous gifts were no longer continued in the church. For there was now completed an established written revelation of the mind and will of God, wherein God had fully recorded a standing and all-sufficient rule for his church in all ages. And the Jewish church and nation being overthrown, and the Christian church and the last dispensation of the church of God being established, the miraculous gifts of the Spirit were no longer needed, and therefore they ceased; for though they had been continued in the church for so many ages, yet then they failed, and God caused them to fail because there was no further occasion for them. And so was fulfilled the saying of the text, “Whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.” And now there seems to be an end to all such fruits of the Spirit as these, and we have no reason to expect them any more. [14]
Of the extraordinary gifts, they were given in order to the founding and establishing of the church in the world. But since the canon of Scriptures has been completed, and the Christian church fully founded and established, these extraordinary gifts have ceased. [15]
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George Whitefield (1714-1770):
[After being accused of practicing the miraculous gifts of the Spirit, said:]
I never did pretend to these extraordinary operations of working miracles, or speaking with tongues [since] the karismata, the miraculous gifts conferred on the primitive church . . . have long since ceased. [16]
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James Buchanan (1804-1870):
The miraculous gifts of the Spirit have long since been withdrawn. They were used for a temporary purpose. They were the scaffolding with God employed for the erection of a spiritual temple. When it was no longer needed the scaffolding was taken down, but the temple still stands, and is occupied by his indwelling Spirit; for, “Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you” (I Cor. 3:16). [17]
*****
Robert L. Dabney (1820–1898):
After the early church had been established, the same necessity for supernatural signs now no longer existed, and God, Who is never wasteful in His expedients, withdrew them. . . . Miracles, if they became ordinary, would cease to be miracles, and would be referred by men to customary law. [18]
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Charles Spurgeon (1834–1892):
[The believers mentioned in the book of Hebrews] had attained the summit of piety. They had received “the powers of the world to come.” Not miraculous gifts, which are denied us in these days, but all those powers with which the Holy Ghost endows a Christian. And what are they? Why, there is the power of faith, which commands even the heavens themselves to rain, and they rain, or stops the bottles of heaven, that they rain not. There is the power of prayer, which puts a ladder between earth and heaven, and bids angels walk up and down, to convey our wants to God, and bring down blessings from above. There is the power with which God girds his servant when he speaks by inspiration, which enables him to instruct others, and lead them to Jesus; and whatever other power there may be—the power of holding communion with God, or the power of patient waiting for the Son of Man—they were possessed by these individuals. [19]
The works of the Holy Spirit which are at this time vouchsafed to the Church of God are every way as valuable as those earlier miraculous gifts which have departed from us. The work of the Holy Spirit, by which men are quickened from their death in sin, is not inferior to the power which made men speak with tongues. [20]
[Speaking of the office of the apostles,] an office which necessarily dies out, and properly so, because the miraculous power also is withdrawn. [21]
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George Smeaton (1814–1889):
The supernatural or extraordinary gifts were temporary, and intended to disappear when the Church should be founded and the inspired canon of Scripture closed; for they were an external proof of an internal inspiration. [22]
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Abraham Kuyper (1837–1920):
Many of the charismata, given to the apostolic church, are not of service to the church of the present day. [23]
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William G. T. Shedd (1820–1894):
The supernatural gifts of inspiration and miracles which the apostles possessed were not continued to their ministerial successors, because they were no longer necessary. All the doctrines of Christianity had been revealed to the apostles, and had been delivered to the church in a written form. There was no further need of an infallible inspiration. And the credentials and authority give to the first preachers of Christianity in miraculous acts, did not need continual repetition from age to age. One age of miracles well authenticated is sufficient to establish the divine origin of the gospel. In a human court, an indefinite series of witnesses is not required. “By the mouth of two or three witnesses,” the facts are established. The case once decided is not reopened. [24]
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Benjamin B. Warfield (1887–1921):
These gifts were not the possession of the primitive Christian as such; nor for that matter of the Apostolic Church or the Apostolic age for themselves; they were distinctively the authentication of the Apostles. They were part of the credentials of the Apostles as the authoritative agents of God in founding the church. Their function thus confined them to distinctively the Apostolic Church and they necessarily passed away with it. [25]
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Arthur W. Pink (1886–1952):
As there were offices extraordinary (apostles and prophets) at the beginning of our dispensation, so there were gifts extraordinary; and as successors were not appointed for the former, so a continuance was never intended for the latter. The gifts were dependent upon the officers. We no longer have the apostles with us and therefore the supernatural gifts (the communication of which was an essential part of “the signs of an apostle,” II Cor. 12:12) are absent. [26]
Ephesians 2:19–22: “[19] So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, [20] having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, [21] in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, [22] in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.”
Verse 8 was discussed in yesterday’s post.
There seem to be only two things that commentators agree on when it comes to 1 Corinthians 13:8–13: (1) The point of the passage is the 
Acts 2, which records the Day of Pentecost, is one of the central passages that must be considered in the continuationist/cessationist debate. In fact, the modern Pentecostal movement was born, in large part, through the study of this passage. In 1901, Charles Parham (the recognized founder of the modern Pentecostal movement),
Last week, I suggested that the continuationist/cessationist debate revolves around two primary questions: the when question (regarding the duration of the miraculous gifts) and the what question (regarding the nature of the miraculous gifts). For the next few days, I’d like to focus on the key texts involved in the when question.
Here are a few others to add to your very helpful list:-
1. The argument from church history that men like Huss prophesied, men like Spurgeon and Lloyd-Jones spoke of being guided by the Spirit, and dramatic healings are recorded associated with some of the reformers – including resurrection of the dead .
2. The argument that since Peter in Acts 2 stated that the “last days” prophecy of Joel was being fulfilled and that this promise was for future generations and all Christians to argue that gifts have ceased is to argue that we are living in days AFTER the last days! (Now where does THAT fit in anyones eschatology?)
3. The claim that the goal of our salvation appears to be receiving the Spirit who is a guarantee of our inheritance. If there is no conscious experience of the Spirit to be had today, how can He give us assurance? (cf Eph 1:13-14, Gal 3:14, Phil 3:8-11)
4. That Jesus promises us an experience of the Spirit that would be better for us than if he himself were to remain on earth - which of us have plumbed the depths of an experience of God to that extent that we could say we would prefer our experience to meeting Jesus in the flesh?
(John 14, 16:7)
5. The claim that Biblical Prophecy was not always 100% accurate, nor automatically enscripturated (1 Cor 13:9, 2 Sam 7, Acts 21:9, Acts 21:4,10-11,32-33, Acts 27:10, Acts 27:22, 1 Samuel 10:5 , 10 , 11, 12; 19:20, 24; 28:6 , 15 ; 1 Kings 18:4, 13 19 , 20; 1 Kings 20:35, 41; 22:6, 10; 2 Kings 2:3; 17:23; 24:2; 2 Chronicles 18:9; 20:20; 24:19; Ezra 5:1; Jeremiah 7:25; Hosea 12:10 Matthew 2:23)
Hi I just thought that I would add to this. I once was under the belief like many pentecostal people that the continuance of these giftings was esentual to the faith. In fact I even thought that the bible supported it. But it was not until oneday “I actually picked up my bible” and “actually dug further”, and “searched out the context, the meaning, and who the scriptures where addressed to” that I actually changed my opinion. Since then I do believe in that statement as made in Corinthians “These things too shall cease! talking about prophecy, tongues, and the like” I may be one in a few. But I do feel now as though the scriptures themselves have pointed me in that direction.
How I wish I could attend this seminar. I just had the unpleasent “experience” of listening to JP Moreland tell us that “no scholar” believes in cessation anymore and those of us in Bible churches who do will be extinct in just a few years. Thanks for writing and speaking on this important subject.
Nathan,
What is the purpose for the discussion on cessation versus charismatic positions?
How would this discussion minister to the men once they went through your discussion?
Sincerely,
Paul Schafer
Your link to Challies is off.
I am being told that “You don’t have permission to access /Because of our love for God, we want to see His Spirit honored. ”
Which can be a tad disconcerting at 7:30 am…
I would add another argument. The Sovereignty of God issue. God may have decided to cease using spectacular gifts after the canonization of scripture, He may have not, but to effecively limiting God through a doctrinal proclamation seems to be a bit problematic. Can God enact a miracle today? I should think that God has that perrogative.
Additionally, many cessasionists hold to their position dogmatically and doctrinally, but just listen to what the majority of prayer requests are during Wednesday night prayer meeting - healing. Pragmatically, all believers hope for God’s miraculous intervention in their or their loved one’s lives.
I am not advocating a Charismatic/Pentecostal perspective concerning gifts (which come from a human sovereignty position) but for a natural application of charis that Paul advocated in the New Testament under the sovereign control of God through the empowerment of the Holy Spirit. Perhaps this would be a “Sovereigntist Position.”
I’ve also heard “only MacArthur is a cessationist.”
Regarding: effecively limiting God through a doctrinal proclamation seems to be a bit problematic
I would argue this line of reasoning is itself problematic. A doctrine should stand or fall based on scripture, not based on how we feel it impacts God as we know him.
We must allow Scripture to define what God is like and what he does and does not do. This doesn’t limit God, after all the Scriptures are his way of explaining himself to us (to the degree that he does).
I would agree with that wholeheartedly. The issue would be for one to say, “There is no healing today, period!” and provide no allowance for God to providentially move according to his purposes. In the case of natural law, like gravity, generally things work as God has designed it to be. However, there are many cases throughout the scripture where God contravenes natural law (the sun in Joshua, etc.)…This is what I mean by a Sovereignty position on gifts. God may choose not continue with the “power gifts” [all though there is no tier system within charis - it’s all grace, and all measured out by Christ], that is his perrogative, but we as believers should not create a doctrinal position which dictates God’s activity, that is all I am saying. Thanks for your comments.
There are cessationists and “strict” cessationists. That is, those who believe that all miracles and spiritual gifts have ceased would be termed “strict.” A case can be made for a middle position, which posits that God in His perfect freedom and sovereignty allows for miracles. Such miracles would be the exception, not the norm. Having been given the infallible Scriptures, the apostolic era gifts are no longer needed, and so have ceased.
Hi Mark,
The problem I see is that you’re argument has no Scriptural basis (I’m not necessarily disagreeing with your conclusion, by the way).
For example, what if I suggest that the orthodox understanding of salvation cannot be true because this doctrinal position limits God’s sovereignty? After all, he may very well decide to save an unrepentant sinner who mocked the sacrifice of Jesus with his dying breath. Any doctrine requiring the acceptance of Jesus’ sacrifice would then limit God. However, scripture clearly teaches to die without Christ is to die without salvation.
My point is, arguments about putting limits on God can be brought out (and are brought out) against virtually any Christian doctrine - and even against Christianity itself. It is therefore not a good argument for or against a given doctrine unless such an argument can be backed up with Scripture.
One final point regarding natural law. I can confidently say that the entire world will never again be destroyed by flood. Saying so doesn’t limit God’s sovereignty, but rather conforms my understanding of God to his revelation to us.
Thanks.
2. The claim that there is no one text that explicitly demands the cessation of the gifts. The best cessationists can do is imply cessationism from a variety of texts.
Not only is there no text that demands cessation as a whole, there are also no texts that demand of any of the gifts individually either.
If I understand your interpretation of I Cor. 13:13 correctly as referring to a time in the future (Rev 22:4), then there is no text.
You work to concoct “paradigms.” I, on the other hand, can simply quote scriptures. I like that.
(repost of part of earlier post)
It’s as if this whole cessationist “Theology of Excuses” is like the emperor who has no clothes. The theology has no scriptures. I mean literal and direct scriptures that specifically negate any of these supernatural things.
If I say we should prophecy, the Bible says ,”they shall prophesy.” Acts2:18
If I say we can do what Jesus did, Jesus himself said, “the works that I do shall he do also.” John 14:12
If I say we can heal the sick, the Bible says, “they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.” Mk 16:18
If I say that visions are still possible, the Bible says, “your young men shall see visions.“ Acts 2:17
These are direct and literal statements. I could go on but you get my point. Show me your direct and literal scriptures of cessation.
Yours in Christ,
Riley
5. The claim that since the charismatic gifts filled more purposes/needs than just authenticating the message/messenger, and since those needs still exist in the church today, the gifts are also still needed.
Not only is there a different purpose there is also a different people. The gifts of the Spirit in I Cor. 12 are for the Body of Christ, not just apostles.
Yours in Christ,
Riley
8. The claim that cessationists promote a sterile overly-formal Christianity which overemphasizes doctrinal head knowledge and underemphasizes true spirituality.
This point is a setup. It needs to be reworded. “True spirituality” involves the fruit of the Spirit more than the gifts. You do not try to underemphasize the gifts of the Spirit you seek to eliminate them. Change “true spirituality” to “scriptural manifestations of the supernatural power of the Spirit.”
Yours in Christ,
Riley
In addition to my previous post you might also reword point 8 to say it’s intellectualism vs. supernaturalism. I noticed that nowhere do you mention the word intellectualism.
Riley
I would also add this point.
11. Cessationism denies the full power and potential of the believer through the power of the Spirit.
This point is not man centered it is simply what the scriptures say.
Supporting Verses: (repost of part of earlier post)
1.) Faith has not passed away.
Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
“All things” still means “all things” and would include all of the miraculous things in the Bible. Notice that I didn’t quote Matt. 9:26 or Luke 1:37 that say that with God all things are possible. Nobody disagrees with that. This verse says that people who believe can do all things. Do you believe it? A case could be made I suppose that “all things” would not include cosmically omnipotent things the Bible never states that anyone can do. But it surely would include everything supernatural and miraculous that the Bible does say that men can do.
2.) You can do the miraculous works that Jesus did.
John 14:12 …he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also…
The word “works” is used by Jesus and John in the Gospel of John to refer to the miraculous works of Jesus like healing the sick and casting out demons.
If anyone is inclined to mistakenly try to reinterpret “he that believeth on me” to mean apostles only, they should look at John 6:47. This verse has the same entire phase from the first “Verily” to the “on me…” It is identical to the first part of John 14:12 in both the English (KJV) and the Greek. This verse shows that “he that believeth on me” simply refers to everyone who has received eternal life by believing in Jesus. In other words John 14:12 means that you as a believer, with the kind of faith that Mark 9:23 quoted above talks about, can do the miraculous works that Jesus did. (I’ll give you a hint: You’ll need Acts 1:8 too.)
Don’t be deceived into thinking you can use the next phrase of John 14:12 as an excuse not to do this part. “Greater works” does not refer to getting people born again. Getting people born again is the most important thing but the word “works” must have the same meaning in both phrases and it refers to Jesus miraculous works. Greater works then would simply be greater miraculous works in scope and number since “greater” surely can’t mean “better” than the works the Jesus did. Until you have at least done the same “works” of the first phrase there’s no need to worry about what the “greater works” even are. And since the phrases are connected by “and” you’re supposed to be doing both anyway.
By the way, the word “works” does not refer to his sacrifice. Only Jesus could do that.
3.) You can do “all things whatsoever” that Jesus commanded the apostles to do.
The Great Commission says that all believers (that’s you) should be taught to do everything that Jesus taught the twelve apostles to do.
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
The “you” refers to the apostles and other disciples to whom Jesus is speaking. The “them” refers to all of us who have heard the message and have believed in Jesus.
Here is an sample of what Jesus commanded his apostles to do. Those in the ministry are supposed to be teaching everyone in their congregations to do all these things.
Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them,… (see also Mat 11:1)
Mat 10:7 …preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Mat 10:8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils:…
This does not mean that other necessary things should not be taught also. It just means that the Great Commission is not being completely fulfilled if people are not being taught to heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils, and raise the dead as well as preach the gospel. Thus the Great Commission teaches us to fully preach the Gospel. (“Full Gospel” see Rom. 15:19)
4.) The fullness of the Holy Spirit enables “he that believeth on me” to have a ministry that flows out like a river. (Notice that it’s the same phrase used in John 14:12.)
John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the Scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
The same phase “he that believeth on me is used here and in John 14:12. This implies that the fulness of the Spirit in our lives enables an overflow of ministry like a river that would include doing the miraculous works that Jesus spoke of in John 14:12.
I don’t believe that this is the same thing that is referred to in John 4 talking about a “well of water springing up into everlasting life”. That’s talking about being saved where “up” speaks of our vertical relationship with God. In John 7:37 it’s talking about being filled to overflowing where it flows “out” horizontally in ministry to others. And it’s not just a well but a whole river flowing out.
5.) Miraculous signs should follow them that believe
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name …
…shall they cast out devils Mk 16:17
…they shall speak with new tongues Mk 16:17
…they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover Mk 16:18
If you doubt this verse here’s a link for you:
http://www.bible-researcher.com/endmark.html
I will point out that this verse is in complete agreement with the other verses here listed. The phrase “them that believe” is functionally equivalent to “he that believeth on me” in John 14:12 and 7:38. If signs are to follow believers and not just the apostles as this verse states, the whole paradigm of - apostles have ceased therefore gifts have also ceased - collapses.
All these verses talk about believers doing supernatural things. Taken together they make a strong case for the continuation of supernatural gifts and miraculous works and the Bible never negates this.
If you have a scripture that literally abrogates, negates, or causes to cease any of these things let’s hear it.
Yours in Christ,
Riley
Thank you all for your helpful feedback here. I just finished the seminar (at noon PST), and am now back in the office feeling totally worn out. But I appreciate all of your thoughts above, and your willingness to interact.
Next week I plan to post the notes from my entire session. There’s a lot, so maybe I’ll break it into parts for the blog. (At that time I’ll respond to each of the objections I listed in my post today.)
I am (obviously) a cessationist, but I look forward to the gracious and fruitful dialogue we will continue to have on this topic over the coming weeks.
Thank you again for your feedback.
- NB
Another argument against cessationism: it effectively undermines the authority of the New Testament. Cessationism implies that large parts of the NT, such as 1 Corinthians 14, are no longer applicable today. Indeed arguably this is true of the whole NT, because (obviously if you think about it) it was all written during the period before the completion of the canon and so before the gifts are supposed to have ceased. Cessationists have to teach that commands like 1 Corinthians 14:29 are no longer valid. But if that scriptural command is no longer valid, how about others? Cessationists can offer no consistent criteria to judge which parts of the NT lost their validity when the gifts ceased, they are left to judge this according to their personal subjective judgment, which they are therefore putting above Scripture.
Nathan,
Thanks so much for seeking this kind of feedback and for planning to post your notes.
On a related tangent, it seemed like the series you ran on here exploring the scriptural foundation for cessationism (I think you called it, “The When Question”) seemed to kinda evaporate mid-argument. Did I miss something, or did other stuff just come up requiring that the series be cut short?
Thanks again for your ministry to us through the blog/conferences/etc.
- Dluxe
Dluxe,
Thanks for your question… I have not forgotten about my “when question” series. Because of conference preparations this last week, things here have gotten busy.
Perhaps I’ll put my notes up first (which I think will answer a lot of questions), and then I’ll continue the when series later, if it still seems that there is interest.
Thanks,
NB
The thing I find funny is this: if there’s at least as much indication in New Testament that the supernatural gifts of the Spirit are for today as for the cessationist position (I’ll be generous and say it’s a coin toss), why would anyone WANT to believe the gifts have ceased? Isn’t it better to assume that God is so good and so gracious that he gives us the ability to edify the Church, preach to the lost with demonstrations of Power to confirm the message, and make war against the schemes of the devil? Why would a believer prefer to view God as a changeable being who only poured out His Spirit for a certain time just so the Bible could be written? Is the world less lost now than in the first century A.D.? Is the world not hurting as much now as then? Is the world not hungering for a miracle as much now as before? Can reading about the supernatural in the Bible replace experiencing the supernatural now?
So, please, tell me: if it’s possible that charismatics are justified in believing what the NT says about the gifts of the Spirit, what is the reason you would prefer to be a cessationist?
@ Jared White
1) I’ve rarely seen NT type gifts practiced ANYWHERE. Now, I have heard of a couple of instances, and so it has piqued my interest, but you have to admit, if the gifts are real there are too many phonies out there.
2) I’ve never seen the gifts and the ones that ppl claim to say are not impressive at all. Surely the NT miracle workers were better anybody i have seen. Now, I have credible ppl who have told me stories about crazy stuff that frankly its hard to disbelieve, but 100% of what I’ve seen is nonsense.
3) Biblical case for cessationism is awesome.
4) How many ppl you know are converted b/c of someone’s prophesy and tongues? How many of those have stayed orthodox and faithful? zero, zero.
I grew up in a charismatic env. and you might be living in some weird enclave where the Spirit is on fire, but that doesn’t really happen in real life.
5) Christian life and the power of Christ I have seen and witnessed is the Holy Spirit working powerfully through the Gospel and peoples lives. These two things are by far more powerful than all the tongues in the world.
6) Do you really want a church dependent on miraculous gifts or a church that depends only on following Christ? Okay, if tongues and prophecy is so awesome and powerful let’s see you do that at your work place okay? I think you’ll see that sharing the Gospel and loving ppl will do far more, has done for more, is doing for more, will do far more, etc.
Uh-Oh. Looks like we’re back to disagreeing again. Agreement was nice while it lasted.
John said:
3) Biblical case for cessationism is awesome.
You must’ve been reading different posts than the ones I saw. All I saw was a non-scriptural concoction that fizzled out to nothing. As Dluxe said it “seemed to kinda evaporate mid-argument.”
4) How many ppl you know are converted b/c of someone’s prophesy and tongues? How many of those have stayed orthodox and faithful? zero, zero.
Speaking in tongues is not a method of preaching the gospel. Never was, never will be. It’s for personal edification - “does not speak to men but to God.” I Cor 14:2 How could you preach the gospel to men when you’re not even speaking to them?
The gospel is the “power of God unto salvation.” Rom. 1:16 There is no argument about that or that the gospel is the greatest power. Nevertheless, this recognition does not require you to reject other parts of what the Bible says about supernatural things in their proper place and perspective.
6) Do you really want a church dependent on miraculous gifts or a church that depends only on following Christ? Okay, if tongues and prophecy is so awesome and powerful let’s see you do that at your work place okay? I think you’ll see that sharing the Gospel and loving ppl will do far more, has done for more, is doing for more, will do far more, etc.
There is no necessity to artificially set up an either or situation between miraculous gifts and following Christ. Jesus did miraculous gifts himself so how would doing miraculous gifts conflict with following Christ.
John 14:12 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also;…
Where’s the conflict between doing these same works and following Christ?
Speaking in tongues is not for the workplace it’s for your own prayer closet primarily. Remember, speaking in tongues is not a means of preaching the gospel. No one in the Bible preached the gospel by speaking in tongues. Prophecy and healing might have a place in the workplace but not speaking in tongues. I just prayed today for one of the clerks in the courthouse where I was working. God fixed the problem right there and got all the glory. Most people don’t expect God to do anything in their workplace. I’ve consistently seen this kind of experience to be a powerful encouragement and strengthening of their faith as to the presence and power of God in their lives right where they’re at. What’s wrong with that? Wouldn’t Jesus have done the same?
Yours in Christ,
Riley