Matt Chandler - Selfishness and Dating

Matt Chandler on consumerism and dating.
Excerpt from "The Counterintuitive Life"

Myths about Living Together

Scott M. Stanley & Galena Kline deal with some of the common myths people believe in living together. Showing from statistics, they note: People who lived together before marriage have a higher rate of divorce than those who did not live together. People who lived together before marriage report that it is more likely they will divorce than people who did not live together. People who lived together before marriage have more negative communication in their marriages than those who did not live together. People who lived together before marriage have lower levels of marital satisfaction than those who did not live together. Infidelity during marriage is more common among people who lived together prior to marriage than those who did not. Physical aggression is more common among married individuals who lived together before marriage than those who did not. From their conclusion: Here's a very simple list based on many years of research, many years of counseling couples, and reading and thinking about this issue. The more of these things you are able to do when you are searching for a mate and thinking about marriage, the better your odds will be of making a wise choice. Get to know the person very well before deciding to marry. One thing you can do is take the time to work together through a detailed list of core expectations to see just how compatible you are. (For guidelines on how to do this, you might check out one of the books I've co-authored.6) Do not make this crucial decision in a period of emotional infatuation. Observe how the person treats not only you but his or her friends. Learn as much as you can about the person's priorities and values. Give more weight than your heart may want to how closely the person shares your most essential beliefs (including religious) and values in life. Wait until you are 22 or older to make such an important decision. What you think you are looking for can change a lot. Get the opinion of friends and family who are not likely to tell you only what you want to hear. Wait until you are married to live together. It may not increase your risk to do otherwise, but there is no evidence that it will increase your risk to wait. * * *

The Gospel & Relationships for Guys

Joseph Stigora @ www.newattitude.org notes some things to think about in relating the gospel to romantic relationships.

Before the Relationship

During the Courtship

The Gospel & Relationships for Girls

As part of their series applying the gospel to daily life, NA @ http://newattitude.org deals with the aspect of applying the gospel to the important area of relationship. The first article is by Erin Sutherland from Glen Mills, PA. She shares her perspective on courtship, dating, and “dateship.”

She notes:

The gospel is (1) simple and (2) relevant to all areas of life!

1. The Problem

2. Living Without

3. Single Pursuit

Clarification on Dating and Courtship

From Josh Harris @ http://www.joshharris.com

I am often asked if I still agree with what I wrote in my first book I Kissed Dating Goodbye. The answer is that I do, but I'm quick to state that I've never claimed that the ideas I share in it are for everyone, nor that my book is or should be the final word on Christian relationships. The book is simply me at 21-years-old sharing my personal journey of learning to honor God with romance and relationships.

I also add, that while I stand by what I wrote, I don't always like the way other people represent or champion the concepts I've written about. Sadly there have been many times that people have applied its principles in a very legalistic and heavy-handed way. Some people have had my book forced on them or have been treated as though agreeing with me is the only option for Christians. If you're one of those people, I apologize. That certainly wasn't my intention when I wrote it.

I share all this to tell you about a DVD that my publisher released this year that I hope will contribute to clearing up some of the misconceptions that exist about my writing on dating and courtship. The DVD is a combination of both old and new messages that I've given on the topic.

Original Content
The original content on the DVD was produced back in 1999. It features drama, on-the-street interviews, personal testimonies, and segments of me teaching before a live audience. The focus of the messages is not "stop dating" but instead an encouragement to find your definition of love and purity from God's Word. They're a call to trust and honor God while genuinely caring for other people. The three original messages are:

• Love: What is true love, and how does its power make it possible for you to enjoy lifelong, meaningful friendships?

• Purity: In an age of compromise, how do we cultivate outward modesty and inward purity? What should our ultimate motivation be for living a life of purity, and why should it be a priority in your life?

• Trust: Singleness is not a time for watching life go by, but a chance to develop your gifts and use this season—however long it is—to serve the Lord, while trusting God for his good timing for romance.

New Messages
The two more recent messages are on courtship and were done at my church in the past few years. The new messages gave me the chance to address some of the questions raised by my books, and some of the ways their principles have been misapplied. They are:

• Courtship Shmourtship: Addresses misconceptions people have about courtship, and takes a biblical look at relationships. I speak to singles who are so concerned with "guarding each others heart" that they're not talking to one another.

• Courtship: A Community Project: Looks at how godly relationships can function in the context of the local church.

These bonus messages don't have the same production quality of the first three (you're just sitting in on a Sunday meeting at our church) but we've gotten encouraging feedback on how they answer questions that my books have generated. (We refer to these two as the "bald Josh" messages. The original three messages are the "Josh with Elvis Hair" messages.)

Each of the five messages are approximately 1 hour in length. The DVD is a good resource for youth groups or singles ministries, for sparking small group discussion, as well as personal viewing. You can buy it here.

And here's a little intro we put together for the new content of the DVD:

A Pastoral Response to Online Dating

by Isaac Hydoski @http://www.joshharris.com

Recently, the team of pastors who lead the single men and women of our church decided to address the topic of online dating. One of the men, Isaac Hydoski, who is a very wise and skilled pastor, wrote a paper that sums up our pastoral team's counsel and concerns for those using or considering the use of online dating services. This is a longer post than we normally share here, but I hope that you'll find it helpful. This is by no means a comprehensive treatment of the subject—it's simply our local church seeking to give wise counsel to the men and women in our care.

Online Dating: A Pastoral Perspective by Isaac Hydoski

Don't you wish it was as easy for you as it was for Adam and Eve? Online dating services have been around for just over 10 years, but the idea of finding a spouse goes back to the Garden of Eden. The world looks very different now in some respects, but in other ways it hasn't changed. We still desire to get married and God is still bringing husbands and wives together in marriage.

But how does the $500 million industry of online dating fit in to the grand scheme of God's plan for marriage? Does the Bible have anything to say about online dating? Can we learn anything from others' experiences with online dating?

These are some of the questions we hope to bring clarity to through this paper. This perspective paper is the fruit of the application and study of Scripture, pastoral experience with counseling others and an interview with some from our community who have participated in online dating. We believe this paper is timely. We hope it serves you as you seek to obey and honor our Lord Jesus Christ.

Before getting into the details it is vital to establish that Scripture nowhere forbids online dating and therefore neither should we. It is a denial of the sufficiency of Scripture to add 'laws' that God in his wisdom decided not to include in Holy Scripture. Let's all commit to not load each other's consciences with 'sins' that are not in Scripture. This was the mistake of the Pharisees. But we do want to help inform your thinking and practice related to on-line dating that is shaped by biblical principles. (Read more...)

As we studied on-line dating sites some of the benefits we were able to identify are:

• Online dating allows for interaction with a much larger group of singles.
• If used wisely, it can provide a context to evaluate a potential date before meeting face-to-face.
• In addition, many singles who invest the amount of time and energy into online dating are generally interested in a serious relationship.
• Finally, there are positive examples of couples who have met and got engaged/married through these services.

These are good benefits. But with any decision we make, it is important to weigh the benefits and the risks before we proceed. Having said this we, as pastors, do have significant concerns about on-line dating services and the unwise use of them, which we will detail in this paper.

Concerns to consider (not in order of significance):

Expensive A few of these sites are free, but most average $30 a month and some are as high as $50 per month.

Time-consuming
Filling out lengthy questionnaires, sorting through potential "matches", and contacting matches can be a very time consuming and slow process that can distract from other priorities.

False hope
Advertising campaigns for these sites such as "finding your soul mate" or "the love of your life" border on being disingenuous. Most sites report that only 1-2% of participant's relationships end in marriage. But the advertisements show couple after couple finding true love, which creates an impression not in keeping with reality.

Safety
• Most online dating sites have lengthy disclaimers and warnings regarding personal safety when meeting people online.
• Disclosing highly personal information to someone you don't know at all is unwise at best and dangerous at worst.
• Best foot forward syndrome: It is quite easy to become a different person online or to not represent oneself truthfully. Often a person will communicate what they would like to be true of themselves rather than their actual lives in practice.
• Consumer complaint sites list stories of predators, liars, con-men/women who are actively trolling online dating sites for victims.

Compromise
• Values: Many find that their potential matches answer value questions in a similar way (sexual purity, fellowship, church involvement, etc.) but how they define and practice these values is much different and leads to the immediate need to either end the relationship or deal with the temptation to compromise.
• Lowering standards: Maintaining God-glorifying standards for relationships is much more difficult after you're already involved with someone and as a result it is easy to drift into casual dating relationships and compromise on the significant values of a committed, intentional relationship.
• Doctrinal beliefs: Excitement of meeting new people interested in you can lessen the importance of significant doctrinal differences that will seriously affect any long-term relationship. Consider a marriage where husband and wife cannot agree on how the sovereignty of God is expressed in salvation, or how the role of husband and wife differ, or how they ought to raise and discipline their children.
• Priority of local church: Getting connected with other believers from different areas immediately adds the pressure of the potential of relocation and can affect commitment to their particular local church.

Can reinforce self-focused view of relationships
• Matches are generally based on what you want in a spouse or how well someone is compatible with you instead of biblical criteria.
• Decisions to contact a match can be based on superficial preferences or how well they measure up to what you want/prefer.
• This encourages sowing towards a selfish view of finding someone who will love you rather than the other way around. (Read Ephesians 5:22-32 for God's perspective.)

Loss of protection from church community
• Many singles in our community are not involving family or friends in this process due the "stigma" associated with online dating.
• You lose the benefit of dating someone known by others you trust.
• You do not have the benefit of seeing the fruit of their life lived out in a local church context.
• Your impressions of the potential match are almost entirely dependent on their self-disclosure and are subject to their honesty or lack thereof.

New temptations
• Deception: It is easy to conceal from others involved in your life what you are doing and easy to conceal the truth about yourself to others online.
• Hopelessness: Many singles approach online dating after experiencing disappointment within their church context and can even see this as their "last chance" for a meaningful relationship. Given that only 1-2% of those participating in online dating services find a spouse this can be a significant discouragement if marriage doesn't occur.
• Laziness: Some see online sites as an easier approach to relationships, which hinders a cultivation of a trust and faith in God.
• Discouragement: Many singles find that after a few months of online searching, nothing meaningful comes from the hard work. Some are never contacted at all.
• Distortion of biblical roles: These services can place women in the difficult position of having to lead if paired with a man who is unwilling to lead.

From our perspective these are significant concerns/risks that you need to prayerfully consider if you are thinking about participating in one of these services. Please do so with the help of the spiritual community God has given you, because "Without counsel plans fail, but with many advisers they succeed" (Proverbs 15:22).

Pastoral Counsel to Those Using Online Dating Services

For those who are currently participating in online dating, we want to counsel you so that you are best equipped to navigate these concerns & risks.

1. Discern your motives (Jeremiah 17:9; Luke 6:43-45; James 1:14)
Our motives are constantly driving us to do things--whether good or bad. When it comes to online dating, there is a range of possible motivations one might have. One common motive seems to be a hopelessness in God's provision and timing of a spouse. You might ask yourself this question to discern this, "Is this a means to take the possibility of marriage into my own hands instead of trusting God?" We are not saying that you shouldn't be taking action and specific steps towards pursuing good things like marriage, but if this is your motive you might be setting yourself up for an even greater temptation and struggle because the reality is that the vast majority of those using services like this are not finding a spouse. If you discern this is your motive, then repent of unbelief and start believing in God's sovereign goodness and provision for you in particular. Please also consider if continuing in this service is going to further tempt you to doubt God's goodness for you by trusting in yourself to find a spouse. If the temptation is too strong, it may be wise to discontinue using it and start sowing to trusting in God to provide.

2. Involve your community (Proverbs 11:14, 15:22, 20:18, 24:6; Hebrews 3:12,13, 10:24,25)
The biggest concern we have about online dating is that it seems to go under the radar. People aren't talking to their friends or their care groups or their pastors about the people they are meeting online. We realize that you might be wary of sharing this with others because of a perceived "stigma" that on-line dating has, but you need to be seeking wisdom from others to help you honor God more than you need to maintain a reputation. It is unwise to not invite your friends who care for you and know you well to help you evaluate the type of people you are meeting online. The reality is that no matter how often you re-read their profiles, talk to them through email or phone, you still do not really know this person. What we would suggest is that you invite family or a trusted friend into your correspondence with the people you are meeting. We know this sounds very personal, but consider letting them read the emails, profiles, etc. to get their perspective on these individuals. We are aware of some examples of humble people who have done just this as they sought to apply biblical principles to online dating. Finally, bring the people you are meeting into your community so your family and friends and pastors can begin to get to know them face-to-face. This will bring much needed grace, protection, and wisdom to you as you evaluate this relationship.

3. Know your values and convictions (Ephesians 5:10)
What are the non-negotiables in a potential spouse for you? If you haven't spent time considering this in light of Scripture you will likely default to what feels right instead of determining what is most important for you in a spouse. Compromise really is right around the corner when we don't determine what our convictions are. We have seen this time and again with Christians who aren't clear on Biblical criteria and priorities for a spouse.

4. Communicate your values and convictions (Zechariah 8:16; Ephesians 4:15, 25)
Feelings of attraction and a desire for the opposite sex are powerful realities in our lives. If these are not anchored by your values about the Christian life (e.g. sexual purity, local church, fellowship) they will pull you towards either conflict or compromise. Please do not allow a relationship to remain in an undefined territory where what you believe and hold to is not communicated by you or the other person. This will inevitably lead to either you tempting the person who is becoming emotionally attached to you or it will tempt you to simply jettison important convictions you have because of your emotional attachment.

5. Ask about their values and convictions (Ephesians 5:6,7; Proverbs 24:21; 1 Corinthians 15:33)
Don't get entangled with someone who doesn't love what you love, value what you value, desire what you desire--especially as it relates to your relationship with God. Ask detailed, specific questions about their faith and how it functions for them in day-to-day life BEFORE a relationship begins. We'd also like to suggest that you try to talk to this person's pastor or significant leader in their church. Ask them the same questions that you've been asking the person through email/phone and compare notes. They will likely offer a much more balanced perspective on this person. This will be really helpful if the person has spoken much more idealistically about themselves than the pastor's or leader's perspective.

In summary, if you are participating in online dating, please know that we love you and we support you. Our concerns are just that: concerns. We want to see you experience God's grace in Christ Jesus and we want to be faithful to show you some of the significant pitfalls as we see them, so you can be protected from discouragement and danger.

If you are considering participating in online dating, please weigh our concerns and make your decision carefully and with much prayer and counsel.

Dating with Purpose & Purity

By Colin Adams@ http://unashamedworkman.wordpress.com

The following was posted today on my wife’s blog titus2talk. If you’ve spoken before on the subject, I’d be interested to know about any resources you’ve found helpful…

Tonight my husband and I are giving a talk to our youth group at church. They have asked us to speak on dating. I don’t have time to go into all that we will touch on, except to say that the more we read on this issue, two things are continually brought home to us: Dating with purpose and dating with purity.

I simply therefore want to highlight a few resources that we have found helpful in our reading. For those of you who are contemplating dating, or are already involved in such a relationship, take time to read the short articles on this subject from Boundless, and for a more in depth read, both books by Joshua Harris are recommended.

Biblical Dating: An Introduction
Biblical Dating: Are You Ready to Date?
What Does a Biblical Relationship Look Like?
Biblical Dating: To Kiss or not to Kiss?
Does God Bring People Together?
Stop Test-Driving Your Girlfriend
Brother, You’re Like a Six!

“I Kissed Dating Goodbye” by Joshua Harris
“Boy Meets Girl” By Joshua Harris